"You Are Incredible" - the Madlug Story

Dave Linton, the founder of Madlug, joins Will to explain how a former youth and church worker became a modern entrepreneur with a difference.  Madlug sells bags - and each time it does, a child in the care system is given a free bag for their possessions when they change accommodation. Traditionally, they've often had the indignity of stuffing their things into black bin bags.  Dave's philosophy of being a Christian in the business world, is thoughtful, fascinating, and challenging.

Produced by Commission Christian Radio

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:29

Hello, I'm Will Leach. Welcome to the Commission Files. Now, not so very long ago, I was on one of my regular visits to London. We go to visit our two children who were born there and are building their lives there. And one morning, after all the hugs and hellos with my son outside Waterloo Station, we sat down in a coffee shop and he threw his backpack down in a chair beside us and I saw the label on it. It said Madlug. Now his elder sister had bought that bag for him, and I smiled to myself because I knew they'd be pleased that we'd be making this episode soon. All about the man behind the Madlug label, the brand, the idea, the company, what gets him going. So welcome to Dave Linton of Madlug, entrepreneur, chief executive, boss, call him what you will, but also former youth worker, church worker, and follower of Jesus Christ. Dave, welcome. Thank you. It's good to be with you. You're a businessman these days, and I once heard you say to a packed room that you sat GCSE business studies and were graded and classified.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

And look at you now. Absolutely. Those were the days. Those were the days when school and me weren't the best friends. And um that that's a result of um later in life finding out I was um dyslexic. But in those days I just felt stupid. Were you told you were stupid? So often children are. Yeah, absolutely. You just were made to feel different. But looking back, a funny story of um when I was at school, um, and I never really saw this as a dil dyslexic thinker, but um we had to read books, and you got prizes, and the person who read most books was um rewarded with like a trip out with a teacher. And of course, you want to be the teacher's pet, but you're never smart enough to be that teacher's pet. So I would go, I would get a book, but I always chose books that had videos made of them. And I took the I took the book, I went home, I went to the video shop, took the video out, um, watched it like Land the Witch and the Wardrobe and all those, and then was able to do the review, put it back. I was miles ahead of any other class friend in there until my my best mate squealed on me one day.

SPEAKER_02 2:34

There is the risk, of course, of a major plot change by Hollywood from what the book was, and then you're you're in trouble. Yeah, I was prepared to take that risk. Let's start with madlug. There's so much to talk about, but the idea of why you founded madlug, make a difference luggage. Tell me why you and Judith were at a stage in your life where this thought came into your head.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

Yeah, for for myself and my wife Judith, we fostering was something close to us, um, foster care. And um we had done some short break or respite foster care from we were first married. I was working in a church as a youth worker. We had a house provided as part of the rule, and it had an extra an extra room in it that we weren't using, and thought, could we do more fostering? By that stage we had moved from the Belfast area into the Lurgan area of Northern Ireland and a new trust. And having had a break from the respite, we thought let's explore this. But they told us we had to go back to the start. Went back to the start week four of the training, showed a video of a young girl. She was sitting in a wheelchair and she made this statement when we move, the local trust, our local authorities, don't give us suitcases. Sometimes foster carers will loan us a suitcase, but more often our belongings are moved in black plastic bin bags and we'll lose our dignity. I heard nothing else the rest of that evening, and I was just left with this thing, I'm gonna fix that. Why did that resonate with you? Why did the bin bag bother you so much? Well, I just couldn't get this picture. It was as if it was just um it just made me stop and think. To be honest, my wife didn't even hear it. It was as if it was just for me that I couldn't get past the reality that they were putting children's and young people's belongings into bags that they would put rubbish into. And I thought, that's totally wrong. And the whole word of dignity that that young girl mentioned was, yeah, that's it's not dignity to give them their stuff in a black bin bag. So that's what moved me. And I went home and started to research and look at the issue. Thought I would just go back to my my after school's drop-in club and collect all the bags that you know every year the young people change their bags for school. I thought I could just collect their old school bags. And then if they're like us, there's so cases in the in the wrist space that they have, you know, that you have that you don't use, or every time you go on holiday you want a different one or a new one, or you go to TK Maxx, you see a nice new colour or something like that. I thought we could collect those. But then started to realise and see that the issue was huge. The amount of children and young people in the foster care system in the UK and Ireland was over 90,000 at that time. It's now over 104,000. And statistics like one child moving every 15 minutes and most with their belongings moved, and either black plastic bin bags or what today's bin bag is is the plastic bag for life shopping bag. I thought I can't really fix this with my young people. It needs a proper fix. So what's that gonna be? So that's how I got into Madluck.

SPEAKER_02 5:50

But the question of what's that gonna be, it's a big, big step to say, I'm actually going to become an entrepreneur, find a business, get luggage, sell luggage, sell bags, whatever. That you know, I can see a huge gap between the concept, the idea, the vision, and the happening. Most of us wouldn't have a clue, most of us would never get there. You did.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

Yeah, I think part of it is the journey of uh uh you know, being dyslexic, not being great at school, having that, but I am a super learner. I am so interested, I'm a sponge when I'm interested in something. So over the years I have I had been really influenced by kind of leadership thinking, um, you know, that you didn't have to have the qualifications to be a leader. I loved organizational structure, working in the church. I could see how organization and getting teams to work in and all of this stuff there. And I went to conferences around that. So I remember at a at a leadership conference hearing a guy, um, Blake McCoskey, who founded a company in America called Tom's Shoes, where he said he was traveling in South America, he noticed the children didn't have shoes. He had $5,000 and he thought, I'm gonna fix that. If I but if I spend my $5,000 that I have in just buying shoes for those children, where'd I get the next $5,000? So he started this shoe brand with this commitment of one for one. Every time he sold a pair of shoes, he would give a pair of shoes, and they called it Tom's a better tomorrow. And I was inspired, this was about three, four years before the bin bag story came to came to me. But I was so inspired by that business model, and I was interested in that, the innovation of that. I was an evangelist of their brand, talked about it all the time, never wore their product because it was never my style or didn't have the feet for it. But but it was just uh this reality of um that was a great idea. Then the other part is I'd been 22 years in youth work, working in church-based youth work, and sometimes having to deal with funding, and funding and dyslexia is a tough one because you have to fill funding applications in, and that was something I was never good at. So I always used innovation to get around the funding applications to try and get the money through different means. I would do things and not do things as a result of that, and I hated all the reporting. So I just knew this the the leadership stuff that I learned about Dave, the background of education that I had, the reality was that going down a funding charity approach would not be the right thing for me. And if you're not good at that and you're running a charity type approach, then you need to run a few marathons, climb a few mountains. And I'm a youth worker with a youth worker belly from birth because I like my tray bakes and a few coffees.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

So 2015 Madlug was founded, and and you love that business model of when we sell a bag, we will give a bag to a child in care who needs one. When you look back now, because eleven years ago as we sit here, Dave, exciting times, frightening times, stimulating times. How am I going to get through the next day? Times we have no money, times we have lots of money, no we don't. This is hard, it's cyclical, blah, blah, blah. You y it's as well you're a sponge. Because you're picking all this stuff up and living this entirely different life from being a youth worker or a church worker.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

Absolutely. It's you know, it there is those days where it's like really tough. You're thinking, how do I pay the salaries next month? How do I do that? to the days when you get the phone call from some of the biggest companies in the UK and beyond. In fact, we've had some of the biggest companies in the world contact us and buy bags off us, and you get that phone call and you go, wow, and that sets you up. But then you have the tough days. And what I love about the doing the business part is every day is a school day. Every day is about learning and it's about problem solving. And that's a s when you have dyslexia, that's a super weapon because you're not stuck. You find solutions to problem. It may take you a while to get it, you might not see it obviously, but you never see a total wall. You just see a fence to get over or climb around or get around. And um and so that's kind of how I've done business, and just constantly been curious, asked questions, and got good people around me, people who have walked the path before me, people who are coaches. Um, just that's that's how I've how I've done it. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 10:19

So um there's a foundation that gives the bags away, is that right? What's the mechanics of all of that?

SPEAKER_00 10:26

Yeah, so we just set up our community interest company initially, and it was I really wanted it to be business. I wanted it to generate its own income to do the impact. There was a number of reasons for that. One is the funding world wasn't getting any bigger because Dave arrived with this new idea. All it would have done would have sliced the pie smaller, it would have impacted the organizations. It didn't have the business model and innovative idea to get funding. It was taking money from them. And what happens when that happens is uh you end up with uh a competitor mindset. So everyone's friends, but we're still competing. And I didn't want that because I knew that I wanted to be an ally for kids in care, and I wanted to be a champion and a partner and a friend of those who were doing amazing works in other areas of children and young people in the care system. So it's set up as a community interest company because I didn't also didn't want to set a company up that they've owned because you're helping children and young people, you know. Based here in Northern Ireland, the challenge in that is that people think if you change your car, you build a house, you do anything, you know, suddenly you're making loads of money off the back of a social need. And I didn't want that because of that context here. I thought so I looked at the different business models. The different business models was community interest company, a locked asset business that was for trading purpose. But if I sold it, or if it was sold, or if it was stopped, or all the asset, all the money would be given to a charity or another social enterprise working with children, young people in care. So we started that, we can do everything through that, but then we realized that we we needed to be really commercial to have that funding model, and the leadership requirements for a really focused commercial bag brand when you're trying to be a bag brand was different than being a really focused charity. And the risk was if you try and do it all in the one organization, you would end up with spending your whole days just talking about where the bags are going and missing the commerciality of it, or the other way around. So the idea of having the Madluck Foundation then set up as a another company, but as a charity, registered charity, is that we commit to giving the money for the buy the bags that we give to the children and young people after the seals into the foundation and the foundation purchase the bags that go to the children and they distribute those. Now it's all done through the one organ, one group of people, but those are the two fahicles, and it just allows us with two boards to be able to juggle at, to be accountable. One to hold this when you're commercial, do what you say you're doing, and the other saying, Have you done what we've asked you to do in the foundation?

SPEAKER_02 13:24

I've had this experience in life when I see my and they're growing up now, my two children doing interesting things that I think are fascinating, but I never had learned to do. I started them off, helped them, and then they raced ahead of me. And I always used to joke and say, Did no one tell you this was hard? You didn't seem to know it was hard, you just got on and did it. And that's what I'm thinking of with you. I mean, did no one tell you this was really hard? You just went and did it.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

Yeah, you know, I think I think the as an entrepreneur, the and what I know of other entrepreneurs now is there's a stubbornness and you you don't see it. You're prepared to think it's not going to be hard. You see the the vision, the picture of the finished rather than the the the steps to get there. And any any entrepreneur I know and any visionary that I know sees that end goal and the stubbornness to make a start. I remember Blake McCoskey in his book that I read very slowly before audiobooks were around, and um he says, if it's so important, someday we'll take the dreams to your grave. If it's so important to you, just do it. And it was that moment I thought, how many dreams had someday robbed from Dave over the years? Because Dave didn't just turn out to be innovative then. Dave was still the same when he was at school, but I I kept telling myself, I don't have a university degree, I have no money, I you know, someday I'll have kids growing up, someday we'll do this, someday. And that was the thing. So I thought this someday is not gonna rob this one, I'm gonna do it.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

What does it say on a bag when a child is given it, gifted it? Because it's a traumatic enough time to be moving, so maybe that isn't necessarily what they take in that day, but over the next few days and weeks they will.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

What does it say? So it says you are incredible, value worth dignity. And how that came to being was I met with a CEO of a charity in Northern Ireland that works with children, young people in care. Is bin bag still an issue? They said yes. I said, Well, I have this solution. They said, Well, I want you to do this. In Fest A and I, who are the business support, they'll help you with the business model and do all that stuff through mentoring. I'll get you four or five young people from our interns who are care experienced, and they'll do a dragon's den with you. It was the hardest meeting I've ever had because I went with just an idea and I sat down to them and told them what I was planning to do. And I used the word value worth dignity. I said, because you have huge value, huge worth, and you deserve to be treated with dignity. I kept repeating that, saying that's my why, that's the foundation of why we're doing what we're doing. And they loved it. And they said, Can we put that on a bag? And so that's where that came, that you're incredible value, worth dignity. But the other thing they told us was they didn't want the brand of Madlow on the bag visible when the bag was being used because they didn't want to have stigma, they didn't want to be seen as a kid in care. Now that's changing. The more we've built trust, the more young people know about us in the care system, they they're so proud, they want to be showing Madlu. But at that stage it wasn't. So then what we designed from that was a pack-away travel bag that on the packed up version it says you are incredible, value worth dignity, madlug, that's it. When it's opened up, it's a 35-litre travel bag with no branding on it at all. So they remove the stigma, and um that's how it came about.

SPEAKER_02 17:10

You and I've had fun looking at your website and and and there's videos and you explain yourself on YouTube and all the rest. It was all fascinating. You have to show how it works on a website. So you have a picture here and there of a child carrying a bag, but explain your philosophy of who carries bags, how that picture got taken, for example, and who you use and how and why to promote bags, because I find this very interesting.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

Yeah, so it's very simple. Madlogue will never use a child or young person to promote selling bags. We want the power of the gift. This is about the young person having value worth dignity. To me, the value worth dignity piece is giving with no expectation. So we're not giving them and saying, Can we get a photograph of you receiving that bag, using that bag? We we'll take the we'll take the risk of never being heard about as a company so that we can give them that value worth dignity that they deserve. So any picture that we see, and we focus more on the bags, but any picture that you see with a child in it, it's been modelled, it's been set, it's been a photographer has taken their own kid and and um put it on to help promote what we do to create the the moment. There've never been young people that have received our bags. And in fact, we would even struggle to put an adult with care experienced onto our promotion. Unless the only way that we've done that is if there's a care experienced care lever who is now in a professional place of either being a social worker, running their own organization that is making a difference within the care system, then we will use allow them to be on a podcast or on something that we we talk about. And we stay away from that whole terminology of ambassadors of getting key people because you know this is a gift, and a gift has no strings attached, and also we don't want to use children to sell more bags.

SPEAKER_02 19:20

Yeah, it it's not a case of we'll give you this as long as it can make us look good. It's just we'll give you this.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

And also we don't want to have sad stories. It's it's it's it's wrong that children, young people have their belongings moved in bin bags, but we want to celebrate the change, the difference that can be made through the selling of a bag. So, you know, we we don't even want to be billboards even with models of sad pictures going, you know, child in care. We want to celebrate buy that bag, make a difference, children move in with dignity. And that's what our aim is to inspire, to to motivate, to encourage people to get into that frame rather than getting into the oh sad pity. You know, none of our none of our mad luggers, or the people who are carrying bags, are motivated out of a sad story. They're motivated because they can make a difference and make it a good story.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

You talked about not wanting sad stories, so let's have some happy ones, some good ones. Um the term usually is impact stories. People do they come to you and say, you know what, a bag came to me at a critical time in my life or whatever. What what do you hear?

SPEAKER_00 20:30

Yeah, we hear lots of stories, and that's why young people with lived experience of care are biggest fans these days, because we get stories back. And you know, I can think of of one story in November, it was National Carelievers Month. We were in Leeds doing an event with in partnering with uh uh a bank that we we are one of our customers, and they have created as a result of starting to work with Madlug, they they said we want to do more than give bags, so they themselves created jobs for care leavers, and they've employed I think 30 or 40 young people who are care experienced into proper full-time permanent jobs within the bank, that's Lloyd's banking group. And at the event, we were running this pop-up event for two weeks. The senior executive team from Lloyd's Consumer Bank came to spend an hour with us, and in comes around the edge, the young people who were employed. So it was this kind of marin of the senior exec of the bank and the the those who were benefiting. And in any other world they would not meet. In in this world they they were meeting, and we sh I shared the story along with one of the the directors at at Lloyd's. And afterwards, one of the girls that was an employee came to to me and said, I just wanna say, I love what you do. Thank you so much. I moved from foster placement into university with my stuff in two of your pack-a-way travel bags.

SPEAKER_02 22:07

No.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

And I says, that's a she says, that's a you know, I was I was totally like, wow, thanks for sharing that. That's amazing. What's your name? She told me your name. Um, what did you study in university? She says, Law. And I I was like, wow, brilliant. Just as I was talking to her, one of the senior um committee members, this executive, came over and didn't really know, but they had to say nice things to me. And I was talking to this young young girl. I says, you know, this young girl is on your team. She's been, you know, introduced. And that's lovely. Nice to nice to meet you. Do you know she studied law at university? She says, Right, well, that's that's great. She says, I I got a first class honors degree in law. And she said that, and this executive says, So what's your aim to be in the bank? At this stage, these jobs are created in telephone, do you know, customer service? She says, Well, I'd like to get into the bag, learn it, but I would love to move at some point in the next few years into the law team. And this executive said, Well, here's here's my name. Get in touch, and I'll get you a coffee and an introduction to the person who's head of law within the bank. My my And it started because a young girl who was totally inspired by being given a bag, but not even that. She didn't have her stuff moved in bin bags, which is what happens, and the connections. And I could tell you story after story after story, I'd be here all day of those kind of encounters. I'll tell you one more. Last year I was at Big Church Festival, which we go nearly every year, and we understand, and there was this young girl standing looking at our new products, and our new products for the last few years have been beautiful. I I believe they're our best products, they're next level. I have one, that's brilliant. Yeah, absolutely. And she was she was looking at it, it was this little sage backpack, and I says, Have you ever heard the story of Madlug? And she says, I have. She says, That's my story. I says, Well, didn't even ask her for a story. Wasn't going to try and get a feel-good factor. Just said, Do you like that bag? And she says, I do. So I lifted the bag off the stand and I says, That's a gift for you. And I want you every time that you wear that gift, that bag, that you say to yourself and know this fact, that you are incredible, that you have huge value, huge worth, and deserve to be treated with dignity. And I says, and every time you see this brand being worn by other people, they are also saying that they see you as incredible, that you have huge value, worth, and deserve to be treated with dignity. Next day, so the girl leaves, next day, the there was a mum and a daughter, and they came down and say, Oh, we are that that that young girl you talked to yesterday, she stays with us. It's supported a c accommodation after they get to an age. And um, you made her there, like she was glowing. What she didn't tell you was when she came to live with us, her stuff was in two bin bags. Three days later, her stuff arrived in a transit van full of bin bags, and simply that bin bag story to a girl walking away with a smile on her face, feeling seen, feeling cared for, feeling loved, feeling that she has huge value, huge worth, and somebody has treated her with dignity. And she's seeing people wearing the brand and connecting the brand to her, was just that's what it's about.

SPEAKER_02 25:50

You're listening to the commission files, time for a quick break.

SPEAKER_06 25:58

He was a soldier in a harsh world.

SPEAKER_03 26:01

Marker! Stand fast! Reminder, wait on him through 90 degrees. Let's see what kind of mess you make of that.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

He made enemies. That chap in Caesarea, uh, I was merely wondering if he'd become uh disaffected somehow. He had a waking dream.

SPEAKER_04 26:24

Cornelius. What? Who is that? Show yourself. Who are you? What are you?

SPEAKER_06 26:30

But he found what he was looking for. You are a new creation. Commission Drama presents Cornelius, the search. You can hear this series and many others. Just search for Commission Radio Drama wherever you get your podcasts.

SPEAKER_05 26:50

Hello, this is Drew Gibson. Here to remind you about Commission Sister Podcast: Faith, Hope and Sport. Great interviews, great sporting stories, and plenty of reflections on how lives of Christian faith and competitive sport can be lived together. Find us wherever you look for podcasts. Just search for Faith, Hope, and Sport.

SPEAKER_02 27:14

This is the Commission Files with Will Leach, and I'm chatting with Dave Linton of luggage and bag company Madlug. You're very driven in a very positive way, but very focused. And I'm going to ask you about growing up, because that definitely must have contributed to the way you think the way you think.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

Yeah, so when I was five, my dad died. I come from a family that um were very supportive. But my dad died at five, I had a sister at three. And I can't really remember much, if I'm being honest. All I can remember is that that we were at a caravan and he had taken a heart attack, and in those days you couldn't get in to see him in hospital. You know, you sat in the car while and then three or three or four days later he died. And um the nowadays he would be out in the same day probably with a stint and all of the stuff. But in those days he just left you and on a wee monitor and checked every so often. And we lived in a house, it wasn't a house in the state, it was a you know a bungalow in a you know relatively nice area of Newton Abbey. And you know, my my dad was the only one who worked in the house in the family. My mum didn't drive, and suddenly she's left with two children. And at that stage, she had to get a job, she had uh to learn how to drive. But that resulted in us growing up in an area where we lived that didn't have what others had. So poverty was right on the doorstep of us, and also we had social worker involvement because in those days, you know, you were vulnerable children and young people. So my mum had a f uh social worker um supporting her. We got to do things at Christmas, we got presents, you know, the stuff that the radio stations do, we would have got all that stuff. Um and but what kept me out of the care system, and there's times where I, you know, I my mum did struggle sometimes with um just keeping all the plates spinning, uh, was that there was significant adults around. There was guys uh there was neighbours of ours who their sons were three, five years older, and they they took me under their wing. They took me whenever I was fifteen or fourteen, they took me windsurfing with them when they were all driving in their cars. They they they they they treated me like brothers and significant adults. Their parents, their neighbor the neighbours, they took us on holidays. They they were there when my mum was working and opened the door and we were able to go there after school. All of that stuff. And I wouldn't be where I am today without the power of the significant adults. I wouldn't be probably as involved in church work over those years without the the power of the significant adults. I would never have been driven to to to be in that place to help those on the edge, those are the most vulnerable. And then my whole youth work life was always about right on the edge. It was the young person that most youth workers wanted to put out or youth leaders didn't want in. And that's those are the ones that I loved working with. And that was because the power of significant adults, the underdogs, and I was an underdog. Because you got them, and therefore they got you. I was just real and honest, and not trying to be um anything, but with that comes its own challenges because you know then people struggle to put you in a box and Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:45

Yeah, happens. It brings us very nicely around to your faith story because you were around church folk, Christian folk who were being significant in your life. Was that new to you? Had you been a Christian family?

SPEAKER_00 30:58

Yeah, so my my um grandparents um were and my my dad's family were. My dad um wasn't walking with God until just then he was on his deathbed, and then he recommitted his life to Jesus. And my mum was a kind of churchgoer type person that could do good. My mum was probably the biggest influence on my life, um, I want to reflect on on her life, but they there was there was grandparents, there was aunts and uncles, and then there was it wasn't even the neighbours, the neighbours' kids were Christians, but the neighbors weren't. And it was just this whole so church was a part. I had people pick me up, take me to BB. So Boys Brigade's where I met Jesus. Um for the first time, you know, it was whenever I had a captain who really took an interest in me and made me feel and I remember two years after my dad died going, I won't accept Jesus because for God's love of the world that he gave his only son that he ever believes in him should have eternal life. And that was me going, I'm ready, at the age of eight. And um and so that was really, really significant, but it was the people around that picked me up, took me, took me to youth fellowship. You know, when my mum was working, she went and trained and and worked in the hospital um in her in her life, but she did she came from nothing to that, but that was the the significance of all of that.

SPEAKER_02 32:28

You said that uh you in school didn't really get on. So when you left, bit of construction was it at first? What did you do first?

SPEAKER_00 32:36

Yeah, so the gift that I had when I was at school I could talk. In those days, it's harder, I think, of a young person today. You know, you can't get even an interview without a qualification. But in those days you could get an interview, and I had a vision to be an architect, but not the the the brains for an architect. And I did my best qualification came out of tech drone. So I went into the construction industry and went to tech as well to do architectural technician. And I worked on I worked on the Whitewell Church, that was my last um job, the last team I was on. That was a big building at the time. And I remember remember that well, but then a recession hit. And this the part of me was looking back, I was probably a bit if my own kids did this, I would be pretty you know, pretty annoyed. But for me, I just went, it's over. And I ended up six months unemployed, and people were thinking Dave's gonna struggle here and didn't know what to do. And I remember the church that my granny went to in Belfast, North Belfast. They had some funding, and I got ten pounds on my unemployment benefits and I I went and helped out and became a youth worker helping out, and then I did a another programme, it was all Baptist Church, and I did another programme that was a little bit more money, and I did that for for two years, and in that time the person that was leading the youth project said, You need to go to Bible school, here's a good Bible school to go to, and he sent me, encouraged me to go to Cape Henry Hall in England, and that's where I went.

SPEAKER_02 34:21

And that led inevitably then to youth work, to church work. And I imagine because you were you liked folk on the edge, that was a fascinating, interesting, very rewarding time for you doing that kind of business so far removed from construction, but you did know how the world worked.

SPEAKER_00 34:40

Yeah, I would say there's a an element that's similar, it's only it's more cultural architecture. And I you know, it's when you're interested in buildings, you're interested in people, you're interested in in creating better places, you're interested in creating better people. So there's a cultural architecture there that goes on. I think I I've used that a few times that I love architecture, but I love culture and um an influence in that. So it was an easy, an easy move, but I love people. I love people, and I never thought I would ever retire as a youth worker. I was one of those youth workers that didn't see myself going into being the the minister, because that would kill me. But uh I I always saw myself being in youth work. And um yeah, that's just how I was. I had a vision to to just retire as a youth worker.

SPEAKER_02 35:30

Youth workers have to know about a lot of stuff these days about paperwork, about safeguarding, about fundraising, about grant getting, all that stuff. It's uh That's why that's why God's taking me out of it. You see, I wanted to ask you about that, um, because you in a i people put people in boxes, whether you want it or not, and you said you you know you don't like that and you don't want to do that with people, which I I I have a lot of sympathy for. And yet people would have said, Dave, Dave, Dave, you work for the church. Why are you leaving that world to go into the world of business which people who aren't in that world often don't understand. They think, well, it's about profit, it's about the capitalist motive, I'm interested in biblical principles. Now, there doesn't have to be any kind of sellout, but in a lot of people's heads it is. I mean, did you get the right support? Did you get people being very suspicious and negative of the move you were making?

SPEAKER_00 36:27

There's there's there's a couple of things to respond to that. Simply that having worked probably most of my life in the church world and seeing it, I have to probably confess that that I wasn't really aware of the business world. And and actually it made me less aware of the people that I had as volunteers. And I I've had to confess a few times that and and repent that I probably misused volunteers with expectation, not realizing the mission that they were in every day and the capacity that they had every day and the importance it is for their family. And when we're in the church world, no matter how much we see it as a God-given opportunity and a blessing, the reality is that it's human people who are in leadership, and we have the the that natural desire to be better, to see improvement. So if I'm a pastor, I want to have the biggest church. If I'm a leader of a youth group, I want to have the biggest youth group. That's natural. It's not necessarily right, it's natural. And at times when you're in that and you feel God's called you and God's given you this vision to have this amazing church youth ministry and connect with the communities around you and people come into faith. Sometimes that you can, I think in a church world, sometimes be so driven that you don't see the people around you and the world that they're in. So I'm seeing it because I had never come from the the kind of business world into the church world, I've come totally from this church world where I didn't really understand the people around me. So I'd say nowadays what I'm probably passionate more passionate about is that our mission is in the place where we work. Our our parish is the people that we work with. And and it's important that what we're prepared in here is to be what we're outside, to be real. So what sets us apart is when we're speaking, when we're doing things, we're not swearing every minute. We're not there's we stand out as Christians, but stand out because we're different, not because we're you know, the risk I think in our in our world today is that we try and get everybody to be in the church mindset. And so we we tolerate the jobs we're in. We don't we moan about the jobs we're in because we want to be more in the world of the pastor, or want to be at the prayer meeting, or want to be and that's all really, really important. But for me, the real mission is the people that we do life with. Those are the significant adults. We can be significant adults to our colleagues who are struggling, to our young people we're working with, to the that's the the world I'm I'm in at the minute. And I'm glad that I didn't have it before ministry because it's given me a fresh set of eyes to be more passionate about Jesus than I've ever been. But to be in a world that I have no desire to be in ministry any full-time comp I'm in where God has called me right now.

SPEAKER_02 39:31

You in Madlug are a business that sells bags. You're a business with a Christian perspective. You're not a mission organization, you're not a business with uh a Christian focus in the sense of our business is Christian oriented. You're just selling bags and having a social conscience, I suppose is the best way to put it. What a very interesting way of describing things because a businessman sat me down once in a church context and simply said, Do you do know it isn't the pixies that pay for everything in society that unless wealth is created it can't be given and donated and gifted and used for God's purposes? And God gets that even if you don't, and I was really humbled. And Chasen the day he explained all that to me because it hadn't been my world and I didn't understand it. Do you ever get you talked about not swearing and standing out. Do you stand out in board meetings and business meetings and pitch meetings when when the big companies talk to you? Did do they you you notice yourselves getting noticed?

SPEAKER_00 40:31

People notice it because I would do a lot of keynotes. I would speak in front. Um and the world of business is often about power. And so the so people's power is they might not have a lot to say, so they use a few swear words, they they do it. Even the females are like that. It's just this kind of like authoritative, nearly like it's a badge of honour, and Dave doesn't do that. And what happens is people know people come and ask, are you a Christian? And I've always said from day one, when I'm asked that question, it's an absolute yes. And that's the the marker of it. That um now, is it easy? Absolutely not. Is there boardrooms where you have to to sometimes be strong? Absolutely yes. And the biggest challenge is when you're you know is wrestling with yourself and making the right calls and and um at all all stages. But I I've been asked a few times, well, why did you put this story into a book? And my answer to that is simply this I will not put my story into a book until the end of the story. And the reason being is I want the story to be one that leaders read, whether they're Christian or not, and I want it all to be about Jesus. And I want it to be true, to go, you know, he was the guy who was fair to his staff, he was the guy who never swore on stage or even in meetings. He was the guy that was different, you could see the integrity, but he was a guy that got stuff done, and it's all celebration to the one who has called me, which is the one who's doing it in and through me every day, which is Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 42:26

You're motivated, you've said often, for the people who never get a chance. And you could argue that perhaps you had an idea of that, but I think you'd an inkling of it because you got lots of opportunities when you look back. When you're young, you often don't see what people do for you, you realise it later. Where's that burning desire come from for people who never get a chance, just from having met lots of them or fostered them or whatever?

SPEAKER_00 42:55

I think it's down to well, for me it's at the foundation, it's my faith, absolutely, 100%, you know, that there's so much talked about the orphan and the widow, you know, the fatherless. And for me, I was an orphan, you know, orphans to defined as um a child who has lost one parent. So I was an orphan. So for me it's it's like I can't read the Bible and not see what God's called and what God's heart is. And I also believe passionately that we as Christians is it's not about surrendering a life to to try our best for ge for God. It's actually one of surrendering ourselves to God. So it's allowing as I step out every day in faith, not sit in an armchair and go, God, just open the door for me and I'll wait till you. There's a step in faith. But the actual one who makes it right and does the work is actually the Holy Spirit in us and through us. You know, Christ in us and through us is the way that this this happens. And so for me, that's the foundation of all that I do. That's why I'm driven, that's why I still get excited. Because I actually believe the only reason we're here is because God hasn't finished his mission.

SPEAKER_02 44:23

Going to bring this uh back to bags to finish. When you're out and about in life, and I know you're traveling uh a lot, um airports, railway stations, waiting rooms, whatever, if you see a madlug bag, can you control the urge to go over and say, Where'd you get that? What do you think of it? Do you intervene in people's lives? Because if it was me, I would, you see. I'd be right in there.

SPEAKER_00 44:44

Yeah, I've um Yeah, I've actually been at a place where I see lots of them and I don't have that urge. Um I've had a couple of times where I've had fun with it though. And I've I've seen somebody with it and I have a chat. Where do you get your bag? And if you I I rarely would say that I'm the founder of it. It's so they tell me the story and I'm and then I'll have a bit of a laugh in themselves. Or people are just no idea who you are. I've say or walk in walking beside somebody in Belfast who does the mad lug, and I've got my mad lug on, and you just go on, they don't realise the person is right beside them. So I have a bit of fun to that. But some of my team are different. I remember we sold bags to an academy apprenticeships uh scheme in a in a large company, and we were sitting in Gatwick Airport, the team, myself and a few of the others on our way back, and off the plane that was just arrived in Gatwick, there we counted 15 Madlug bags just getting off all the same. It was like an army of madlug. Well my well, my team, she she heads over and says, What company with what company? There's the founder, there's the founder, I'm going hiding myself.

SPEAKER_02 45:55

Well, listen, thank you for what you do. Don't change, don't stop. I love the thought of you because you're sitting here in a sweatshirt shirt and a baseball cap, and I'm imagining you in a suit in a pitch meeting and enjoying imagining that. But thank you so much, Dave, for telling us your story and joining us on the Commission Files. It's been fascinating. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 46:14

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_02 46:16

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