Sonas means Happiness

Julie Hoey has learned a lot about risk recently, and the way you approach big challenges.  Despite having an important job as a Civil Servant, she also runs Sonas Cooperative in Lisburn, a refill grocer, café and events space. It's because Julie, and her church believe in  being salt and light to the business and commercial life of their city.  Sonas means happiness.  Julie tells Will why she's happy trying to make a go of it on the High Street.

Produced by Commission Christian Radio

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:29

Hello, I'm Will Leach, and this is the Commission Files from Commission Christian Radio. And this time we're talking about someone who works in a shop. Well, it's not really a shop. It's not as simple as that. And she doesn't so much work in the shop, so it's not as simple as that either. It's more that she runs the place in business and operational terms, and it was all her idea in the first place. And it isn't as simple as that either, because it isn't even her main job. She's quite another, quite important one, quite a bit separated from it. But it's all about taking risks for God in a most unexpected way, and I've been fascinated learning about it, and you're going to be fascinated learning about it too. So a big commission files welcome to Julie Howie of Sonus, a cooperative in the Market Square in Lisburn. Welcome, Julie.

SPEAKER_05 1:14

Oh delighted to be here.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

Well What is Sonus?

SPEAKER_05 1:18

Sonus is the Irish word for happiness. It's a cooperative. We uh have a shop unit uh in the heart of Lisbon, right beside the Linen Museum, opposite Smith Patterson. And we are a refill grocer, cafe, and event space. We are open Wednesday to Saturday, and we are a big part of the local community and we seek to create a space where um yeah, community matters and people can access good food.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

Are you a bit new agey?

SPEAKER_05 1:50

Well, I don't think I would say I was new agey because kind of the new age is kind of old now, isn't it, really? But I guess I guess we're holistic in the sense that we see food as being connected to soil and to land and to a place. Ireland and Northern Ireland have an amazing still huge numbers of producers, local producers of food and drink, and it's one of our biggest uh success stories and one of our biggest exports. And we're close to our producers, we're cro close to our land, we can see it when we drive around, and uh those of us who live in the country will be aware of it. But yeah, I guess we care about the whole the whole of the earth and uh what it produces and making sure that we treat it well and uh enjoy it.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

Because God created it?

SPEAKER_05 2:39

Yeah, I guess for me that's a big part of the vision behind it. That food is something that has been given to us to provide us with sustenance, but I also believe that it's been given to us to provide us with joy in preparing food and eating food together. It's always amazed me that we don't just have enough food that that we need. You know, we're not we're not fed like astronauts with little packets of powdered food which just gives them the sustenance and the vitamins and the minerals that we need. We have more than enough, we have abundance, we have seasonality, we have so many different flavours and so many things around the world that are different in different parts of the world. So, yeah, to me food speaks of the abundance, the goodness of God. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

You've talked about your producers being close. Who who are they here, those producers?

SPEAKER_05 3:36

So we have lots of different local producers from staperculture who make kombucha in Drumbeau, just a few miles out the road. We have Bally Down Creamery who make Greek style yogurt and kefir. We have the wondrous Rowandale Milk who've just started supplying us with arborista milk, but also milk in glass bottles so that you can recycle those as well as their lovely milkshakes and cream. We have Dave who grows for Green Goodness Farm on Glenavery Road in Lisburn. We have Jackson Rose Ginger Wine and lots of other products that they make, including some of their lovely new lemonade. We've got any number of them. We have Suki Tea, started 20 years ago in Belfast, global, global brand. Their global headquarters are right here in Lisburn. Yeah, and we've got Matthew Algee Coffee, which yes, it's from Glasgow, but they're Ireland, all Ireland offices also in Lisburn. So we love to support local, and those are just a few of the local brands we have. We have many, many more, and we're expanding too.

SPEAKER_02 4:38

I'm fascinated w how the relationship develops. Do you turn up one day and say, we'd love to sell your stuff, or how how do how do you make the connection that becomes a business relationship that serves both partners, as it were?

SPEAKER_05 4:54

Well, as you know well, I like to talk and you know I like to meet people and I also like I enjoy social media. I enjoy connecting with people and seeing their stories, and people are so creative on social media about telling their stories. I guess I read read books and read magazines and read newspapers, but I also go to food fairs and you know we all we've we've lots of amazing food fairs and you get to meet different local producers just starting out, bringing their product to market, looking for feedback. But anything that's that's good and local uh we'll definitely consider. We have hyperlocal honey from Cai, uh which is uh flying off the shelves at the moment. Um so yeah, we love it.

SPEAKER_02 5:35

Hyperlocal, I love that. Because people can think of, well, I know the road, the fields, the farm where this comes from, which I think instinctively a lot of us would rather eat that and know it's well produced than think of it as having had to come through the Straits of Hormuz or wherever else, you know. Indeed. Uh on the way. How are you received, first of all, by those producers? Are they delighted that someone is selling the way you're selling and the kind of things you're selling?

SPEAKER_05 6:04

Well, I think you have a different relationship with them because they know you and you know them and they're taking a chance on you, and to an extent you're taking a chance on them. Lots of us are s are at a similar stage, so just as we've only been open for two and a half years, lots of these food producers are starting out. It means that you have to show grace to one another because you're you're all learning the ropes at the same time. But I just am overwhelmed with the kindness of of small scale producers uh in this country. It's more costly for them to do business with me than it is for them to do business with Tesco.

SPEAKER_02 6:38

It's more because of volume more.

SPEAKER_05 6:40

Um volume, deliveries, uh, etc. I you know, maybe I'm just not as organized as Tesco and managing all my invoices, but I think what what they lose from that they gain from someone who actually will actively talk about their product. So when you walk into Tesco, nobody walks up to you and goes, Do you know that Mucha Kombucha is made by Brona in Ben Burb? And it's organic and it comes in lots of different flavours. And she's she just set up this company a few years ago and she's going from strength to strength. Whereas when you come into our shop, I'll try not to say all of that to you because that might be a bit overwhelming. But you know, if you show any interest in it. You'll always get a hello first. Well, you'll always get hello first.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

Well, I've had more than a hello in that job, I haven't.

SPEAKER_05 7:22

But we do like we do like to let people know that um the story behind the food, because I think in this day and age when we can measure everything, and we've got our smart watches and things like that, and we're all worried about health and well-being and whatever, and we're thinking about our sleep, and we're thinking about our intake of magnesium, and we're thinking about our vitamins and our fitness. There's a whole load of intangible things that I think are deeply uh reminiscent of the Christian life and how to live as a person of faith, which is um, you know, eating with others, taking time over things, caring about the names of people. If you look at the Bible, there are lists and lists of names of people, and why are those there? Well, they're there because each person matters and each person has a specific job to do. So I guess that they also get more shout-outs on social media perhaps from us than they might get from some of their bigger producer our shops too. But yeah, I think there's room for us all, and we can take we can take a chance, but we're also really, really keen to have local products because we feel that it matters and we feel that it reminds people where your food comes from. And importantly, I think we feel that it means that you value that food more, you're less likely to throw it out, you're more likely to treat it with the reverence that it deserves, given the amount of work that's been put into growing it and producing it. So all those things matter.

SPEAKER_02 8:52

I alluded to it in my very facetious opening about you working in a shop, although in a very literal sense that's exactly what you do. But you do have another job. I hesitate to call it a day job because I don't know which takes the most hours, but you have a job that's salaried, you know, a traditional normal job. You're a civil servant, you're working for the Scottish Government. It's not what this interview is about, but you do have responsibilities and you do lots of remote working and you have work trips and big responsibilities in the realms of public governance and policy. So why would someone doing that think, I'm gonna open a shop in the square in Lisbon? Because that is a big, big step when you have other responsibilities.

SPEAKER_05 9:32

Where did the idea come from? So the idea came from where lots of ideas came from uh during the pandemic, which was that we all had time to pause and stop and ask ourselves, what does our world look like? What did our world look like before we went into lockdown and what might we want it to look like after? I was involved in a community growing project, and if you've ever been involved in one of those, you'll know that you have more curgettes than you can ever manage to eat. And we were looking at the high street and seeing lots of uh empty shops, and it was the rise of people talking about pop-up shops and mean time shops. Even though I've worked in local and central government all my life, I've always been quite passionate about the high street. I've always been into retail. Um I spend less now, but I I I I love I love the whole theatre of retail, um, merchandising, um, uh window dressing. I I I did write to Jim will fix it to to do some window dressing in Harrods, but thankfully he didn't reply. Yes. Um so I think I I love the whole the whole bit about retail because to me it's it's so much more than buying stuff. It's about a transaction, a conversation, and it's about meeting one another's needs and there's creativity in that. Um it's not it doesn't have to be utilitarian. It can be, but it doesn't have to be. So I guess I've always been interested in shops. In fact, one of my proudest moments as a ten-year-old was being stopped in a shop in the Lake District and asked the price of something and feeling suddenly feeling, oh my goodness, I look like a shop assistant. So um that was that was an interesting one.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

It was all there. It was all there.

SPEAKER_05 11:25

So, and you know, in my in my government, local and national experience, you know, the bits that I love uh a lot are when I meet the public, when I'm out talking about things and doing things and working with stakeholders. Yeah, all those things really matter. So I guess we were a co-op, we thought, oh, let's get a shop unit, give this a go, you know, open every Saturday morning for two hours, make a pot of coffee, sell some excess vegetables, and yeah, sometimes our ideas get out of um out of control. So here we were with a shop, there you go. And having to make that work. But there is a sense in which in your fifties, and I'm in my late fifties now, the words, you know, if not now, then when, if not me, then who become you know, they're they're in very sharp focus. Whilst whilst it wasn't in my mind right from the start to lead this project, increasingly I ended up doing that. And I think I saw that I had to make it work, and it was a very long gestation of a project. Everything post-COVID was very hard to make happen. I think setting up a business is hard, but setting up as a cooperative is really hard. Most of the systems don't understand that you're different from another type of organization. And, you know, we couldn't get people to do things that normally you would have been able to get people to do, like shop fitting and whatever. So yeah, it was all born out of quite a lot of adversity, uh, possibly quite a lot of naivety and just uh uh yeah, an increasing sense of, well, this is going to be a journey that will deepen my faith because it's scary and I haven't been in a scary position like this before. And and that was that. Then you have to jump in and open and make it work.

SPEAKER_02 13:19

I'm going to be horribly general here, and you're going to say you can't make generalisms like that. But you you know what I mean when I say this. Longtime civil servants tend to be risk-averse. And before I make that sound really negative, it's actually completely understandable when you're handling public money. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_05 13:35

Even desirable.

SPEAKER_02 13:37

Exactly. Your stewardship of public money that is not yours. You're accountable. That's right. It has to be bang on. Where in ordinary business, if you want my word, you've got to be confident, you can take a punt on something and invest on something, wondering if it's going to work. Now, in difficult times you maybe don't want to do too much of that, frankly, but you can do it. So I'm wondering how much a change in mindset was part of it for you? Because you were doing things that on paper didn't make any sense at all to try to do.

SPEAKER_05 14:09

It was huge. I did a lot of work on mindset because I really wasn't there. I had to do a lot of rethinking. There's a guy who's called John Acuff who's written a book. Like soundtracks, it's called soundtracks, and it's about his his central thesis is if we allow negative words to spin through our head and we allow those to speak to ourselves and and for our us to live in the light of those negative words and soundtracks, why don't we just pivot and make them positive soundtracks and allow them to spin around our heads and to give us that sense of the capacity that we have to do impossible things. So yeah, stand in front of the mirror reading out your soundtrack. It really required quite a big change of life. Um it's not that my work hadn't been demanding, uh satisfying, challenging, even made me feel vulnerable a lot of the time, but this was totally different. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:17

Yeah, it's grown-up stuff you're doing in your other job, yeah. Your government job and and big decisions that sometimes affect the whole of the UK. So there's someone who's saying, Ah, but I I love Lisburn and I'm gonna give something back to the city. Yeah. Was there an element of I love the place we have currently settled? I want to give something?

SPEAKER_05 15:36

Lisburn was where my parents retired to, and by an amazing uh chain of events, we ended up buying a house in Lisburn and then deciding that we would eventually live in that house um and move back from Scotland, which we did ten years ago, and so June 16 we moved. I think I'd always liked Lisburn when I visited my mum and dad and thought it was really lovely. And we my husband and I often talked about where we lived and whatever, and I remember him saying, Well, we could live in Lisburn, and it had never occurred to me to live in Lisburn. So then we bought a house two doors down from my mum and dad. I ha I didn't see the inside of it before we bought it. They didn't know about it, our son didn't know about it.

SPEAKER_02 16:20

A lot of women would take that risk.

SPEAKER_05 16:22

Well, I know, but I'm not a lot of women. So uh I think um yeah, and I guess I really like Lisburn. So where I lived in s the southeast of Glasgow, we we'd lost our high street by then, you know, it had been taken over in really just with tanning booths. Vapes weren't a thing then. So we had tanning booths, we had fast food shops, we lost three butchers, we lost two greengrocers, yeah, loads of things. All our banks closed.

SPEAKER_02 16:54

And and each of those losses is a wee business tragedy.

SPEAKER_05 16:58

It's a wee business tragedy, but it's a loss of social social fabric that uh breaks up the social fabric. So when you lose a certain number of shops, people stop going there. You know, it has to be a very intentional thing and it's quite it's quite when you see the shops that have closed down, that's not a it's not a happy thing to see. And it's much easier to go to your nearest equivalent of forest side and see something sparkly and and whatever. So I guess uh what I saw in Lisburn ten years ago was there were still family businesses, there were still butchers, bakers, greengrocers, there was there were cobblers, there was you know, there was there were lots of the high street stores as well, which were still there at that time. There were department stores, there was the McCall's and the uh Smith Patterson and whatever.

SPEAKER_02 17:48

And not a step from where you are, the church in which my wife and I were married. So there was a natural affection for places in people's lives that you connect to.

SPEAKER_05 17:57

Totally. So I I I loved it and over the the intervening years I grew to love it more and yeah, it's very important to me. Whilst our business is called Sonus, I often call it Sonus Lisburn because to me it is about getting people to to into Lisburn and to think about how lovely the place that they live really is. People do love living in Lisburn, but they also sometimes take it for granted, I think.

SPEAKER_02 18:26

You used a word uh a moment ago you said naivety. Last time in this podcast we were hearing from Dave Linton of Madluck, the luggage company. So an entrepreneur with a church worker background, you had to learn about business and entrepreneurship. And although it turns out he's really, really good at it.

SPEAKER_05 18:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:44

I said to him, Did nobody tell you it was hard? It was like when our kids do things in surprises, we think, Did nobody tell you this was really hard? Because I think it's really hard. So where did you find your I mean you you you'd your governance kn knowledge and your uh really good practice experience from public service. But where did you find your nuts and bolts, commercial realities? I don't have a pension and uh secure income business instincts.

SPEAKER_05 19:11

Well, some might say I haven't found them yet, well, you know. I I do business in my own way, and I know that some of that is really refreshing and different. I know that some of it's surprising. I know that some of it doesn't make a lot of sense to other people, but it's how I've chosen to do business. I guess the other thing is that I've benefited hugely from friends who who want to help me. And that's what community is. I have lots of different groups of friends and community, but I have friends who really care for me, who will pray with me, who'll give me advice, who'll interview me on podcasts. I have friends who who will uh, for example, the Chamber of Commerce in Lisbon is run um at the moment the president's this amazing woman, Ruth Young, who I think you know will.

SPEAKER_02 20:05

And she is amazing, yes, you are Ruth.

SPEAKER_05 20:07

She is amazing. And uh yeah, and I've been involved in the Chamber for many years now, uh predating quite considerably my time in business. So my church family, Lagan Valley Vineyard, was a member of the Chamber of Commerce in order to to cause, you know, to to indicate and demonstrate our desire for the flourishing of the city of Lisburn.

SPEAKER_02 20:29

There can be many churches that do that, that are part of a chamber of commerce. Am I wrong? That sounds unusual to me.

SPEAKER_05 20:35

It is unusual. It is unusual. But it it was it was the right thing to do, and it was a really powerful thing to do. And and from a perspective of seeking to understand, and it probably did shape my understanding of what businesses are up against and uh also the joy of business and also, frankly, the very different way in which business people see life. They're much more for risk, they're much more used to taking risks. I would think about Genesis, the Genesis uh network, and and the you know, Daniel and I would often meet and and have chatted about this before I opened the business, but just starting to understand how people saw things differently, and I guess, yeah, just feel really surrounded by people who want to cheer you on. Local business is is great. There's no one who understands local business better than other local traders. I want to very specially mention, you know, uh Katrina and Kathy at the Daily Apron, you know, they supply our sardo, but they just they are people who walk the talk and who demonstrated a huge amount of care for our community during the pandemic when they pivoted from being you know a busy coffee shop and bakery into you know meal production and meal delivery. And whilst they are very exceptional, um there's a whole bunch of other exceptional people like them in Lisburn running their own businesses and also facilitating business. I'm thinking about people in lots of different sectors. I'm thinking of some of the folk that I know in in our council who are very supportive of business. The City Centre team in Lisburn are amazing. Yeah, there's so many people we have a well we did have a business tribe which is a small group in our church and lots of support there for a business. I remember opening we had three or four of those friends from church coming to write labels for us to unwrap furniture and basically just to hold my hand and say you're going to be alright. But you do need to open. Go on, you can do it.

SPEAKER_02 22:39

You're listening to the commission files time for a quick break.

SPEAKER_03 22:45

Azariah and Abigail have a big problem. What's wrong?

SPEAKER_00 22:50

Abigail Oh Azariah it was awful what? The woman some of them were at the well when I went earlier. Oh Azariah why do they despise me so? The names they called me I've never done any of them any harm.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

I have a good mind to go out and give a few of them a piece of my mind.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

Oh Azariah I love you so but that wouldn't do any good they'd only turn on you two.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

Anyway the outcome of our talk later was that she was going to go to the well at a time when no one else did in the middle of the day. It was very hot then but at least you'd be left in peace.

SPEAKER_03 23:26

But there's a stranger at the well and their lives are changed forever. Commission presents Sister Marathon you can hear this series and many others just search for Commission radio drama wherever you get your podcasts hello this is Drew Gibson here to remind you about Commission's sister podcast Faith, Hope and Sport.

SPEAKER_04 23:51

Great interviews, great sporting stories and plenty of reflections on how lives of Christian faith and competitive sport can be lived together. Find us wherever you look for podcasts.

SPEAKER_02 24:02

Just search for Faith, hope and sport This is the Commission Files with Will Leach and we're chatting with Julie Howe of Sonus Lisburn. We've talked about a step of faith we've talked about your church fellowship. It seems a good time to ask you about how Julie knows Jesus Christ. Your faith story you were raised in County Down up on a hilltop I know so many exceptionally remarkable people from Ruthfrey for some reason.

SPEAKER_05 24:43

But anyway, tell me about growing up tell me about little Julie So I was born in 1969 in Belfast and then moved to Rutherford Island when I was two and Antrim when I was eleven and then Glasgow when I was eighteen and then back to Lisbon ten years ago. So my my father's a Presbyterian minister and my mum and he um just were a great team and so you moved when he got a call? Yeah yeah we moved when Dad got a call to a different church yeah that's how it works. And um I remember as a seven year old reading my scripture union notes and asking Jesus to be my saviour. Those would probably have been the words I would have used then and I've been a follower of Jesus ever since not always very not always progressing at the same speed or at the same trajectory just a very clear sense of um God's kindness and his mercy and his grace to me all through my life. Probably in my teenage years I saw quite a growth in my own faith as I was part of a a youth group where we we you know we would meet together for prayer at seven in the morning and for teenagers that's just really hard. And yet we looked at it's getting on for miraculous together it is it is so a very special few years in my teenage years that were very formative then going to university and having to learn about the fact that your faith and and practice your faith away from your parents which is different and learning life in in Scotland where even though you know we're not that far away culturally and in terms of the the span of Christianity and the experience of Christianity we changed Scotland probably the fastest secularising part of Europe at one point you know from people of the book um to that and and just a sense of trying to work out what what did life look like how did how did you work out your faith in your everyday ordinary life and I didn't really have words for that so my faith and my working life were were like you know parallel but they didn't they didn't meet very often I couldn't I had no praxis for how to do that and I guess I grew quite a lot again through reading Mark Green's book Thank God It's Monday and and starting to redeem my work as worship and as as an offering to God and as something that he had called me to do and equipped me to do. And I guess yeah just navigating many years of infertility and reading Pete Gregg's book God on Mute which had quite an impact on me and on my prayer life being an elder in the Church of Scotland along with my husband and loving church leadership but also longing for a deeper sense of the Holy Spirit working in Mission Scotland with so many people Mission Scotland was set up when Billy Graham came to Scotland but essentially grew into something that was trying to help people think about putting their faith into their into practice in their everyday ordinary lives and we would have used as our our text Romans 12 1 and 2 in the the message paraphrase so bringing out the God colours and the God flavours in our lives you know and thinking about how we do that. And then moving to Northern Ireland and realizing that there were many many churches in Lisburne and a real heart to understand the Church of God in Lisburn so visiting lots of different church gatherings and communities and coming to a position where we decided to be part of Lagan Valley Vineyard which was quite a departure from the Church of Scotland a big change in our way we gather as church and practice as church but one that I was up for and one that has really opened up my eyes to the whole richness of God in a new way was there a morning when you woke up not long back in Northern Ireland and I ask this because I had won I come back much quicker I come back after a mere twelve years.

SPEAKER_02 28:57

But when you thought what have I done now mine was because and this is something I've discussed in other podcasts where it was the Holy Cross dispute. Yeah and a blast bomb was thrown at those children within the first week of me coming home and my wife and I sat down that evening and said have we made a terrible mistake? Have we have we got you know you always question what you've done and you think and if you're wise you turn to God and say well if you're with us help us get this did you I mean have you have you found it difficult? Because it's a very different place from what you left.

SPEAKER_05 29:34

Yeah weirdly I don't I don't think I I have had the what have I done reaction but I've I found returning very emotional and I realised I'd left in 87 when I was 18 and I was still carrying all of what Northern Ireland was like then and I kind of I mustn't have assumed that it was going to be the same clearly I knew that the time had elapsed but everywhere had echoes um everywhere everywhere had echoes of those horrible days and I found that really hard to start with everywhere I went I remembered bad stuff and I didn't like that but I just sat with it because it's as well not to ignore these things you know just sit with them. And over time I began to see the Northern Ireland of now as opposed to then but it took quite a long time for it to happen. Yeah I found it very very sad. Because I think it's not that I'd forgotten about it or that I but I guess it wasn't part of our daily experience. So yeah that that did shock me. So there were lots of times that I thought wow and of course we did come back um because both our families are here and our son who was born in Glasgow in Rotten Row would tell everyone that he was born in Northern Ireland because he loved Northern Ireland so much but of course he missed Scotland rather predictably I couldn't stick it. Rather predictably he missed Scotland a bit but he's grown to love here as well and you know it's just a wee hop across the water and we've got friends there and we've got friends here and we're just so blessed. So yeah I find Northern Ireland very rich now and I think it's rich because of what I lived as a child but also what I lived in my time away and the way that I see things now. I think in many ways I am maybe more curious about culture and history of this place than maybe some people who've lived here all their lives because they haven't had a break from it. And I don't say that to make myself sound better or to criticise those people. I say it just as an observation that can be helpful to have lived from afar. Having lived away I can see so many things that are so good about Northern Ireland and that I really treasure and I also know the things that we're in danger of losing that we haven't yet lost and part of the reason of setting up this shop was in some ways to capture some of those as well.

SPEAKER_02 32:26

Mind you I think we both know food production we've covered a whole lot there but you know the ripples from the days of conflict are still bouncing around. And secondly this place can still on occasion totally break your heart. And that's I guess anywhere any of us can live in it I think that's just part of understanding things. So the Sonas co-op all the skills you've brought to it the skills you've learned all the work putting in how often do you and your husband sit and talk about the parable of the talents and think better read that again because dig another one up so well it's funny you mentioned that parable um so that's one of the parables in the gospels that I really didn't understand for many years or I understood and now see it as a misunderstanding.

SPEAKER_05 33:22

So I used to feel like Jesus was very harsh towards the the the the one guy who who got the one talent and dug a hole and put it in the hole for safekeeping. And I remember reading an article that just outlined the fact that it was because it was because he he misconstrued the character of his master and um as with so many parables the the the mysteries and the truths and whatever are are hidden so that we have to look for them. So yeah um I have a different perspective on on risk now you know risk is spelt R-I-S-K and faith is spelt R-I-S-K. Let's just put it that way I think um risk is one of those things that we can so easily see as negative but it it trains us to to trust in the things that matter as opposed to the things that don't yeah for me one of the things about running a business that is hard is the fact that from what people who support businesses through banks and other places tell me, it takes three to five years to to make a profit. Businesses can be successful and then become unsuccessful uh financially they can also be there are just many, many risks that you take because you're responsible for people and paying people at the end of the month. I guess the parable of the talents says to me something a bit more hopeful which is that it's good to speculate it's good to try new things it's good as I talk about the business often as telling a better story about demonstrating a new perspective. When we say the Lord's Prayer we say your kingdom come your will be done on earth as it is in heaven so as Christians we're about the the kingdom coming in the now as well as the not yet so the kingdom isn't yet here in in its fullness the kingdom of God but the kingdom of God is always breaking through and is coming through in in little splashes of of light. So I see what we do as a means to expanding my mind to the impossibility of what we're doing and the fact that in through God all things can be made possible all things can be redeemed and all things even tough things can bear fruit. Twenty-nine years could you not have sounded even a little bit Scottish Well I do sometimes I can do a very good Glaswegian accent and I put my mind to it but I'll not do it now.

SPEAKER_02 36:16

No we want our Glaswegian listeners and friends to stay with us. We do we do so you have the other job that you juggle which you find interesting and stimulating and demanding. Yeah and then you have the sonus job. Yeah and the dark days and I came through your door unhelpfully on one of them when not many people come across the door and everything can seem maybe sometimes too hard and there's too many setbacks something happens completely out of your control in society or in business or in finance or something. When you juggle all that what keeps you going? What keeps you trying now the reason I'm wondering about that is because a lady did come in just before I left and kept saying I've been meaning to come in here for months and part of me thinks what a blessing she's come in and she's chatting to Julie. Part of me's thinking why didn't you come in months ago? How many times have you walked past a ridiculous woman really unfair things to think. But you know what I mean you can't stand out outside on the pavement and drag people in so what keeps you going? How do you cope?

SPEAKER_05 37:27

So I I mentioned mindset earlier and you you have to work on your mindset. I believe very strongly that the business has been established to demonstrate radical hospitality. So everyone is welcomed everyone gets a hello and that goes for everyone including people who others might hope don't come into their shop maybe because they look like trouble or whatever. You'll find me offering glasses of water and bathroom facilities and whatever to people who perhaps others might not and I don't do that because I'm a better person. I do that because the love of God constrains me to show grace to others the way I've been shown grace. It brings me great joy and I don't mind if people think I'm a naive as I'm okay with that. I think for me the the way in which we operate means that I've always had compassion for shop workers. I think they work incredibly hard I think shop work is physically very hard but if you own the shop and it's your business it's doubly hard because regardless of how you feel in the morning and regardless of how trade is your job is to be there to create a a welcoming environment and to yeah to greet people and to create something really magical you know I like that it's that curious mixture of being financially committed which is no small thing but also emotionally committed.

SPEAKER_02 39:11

Yeah. It's going to get you right here if it if something doesn't work.

SPEAKER_05 39:14

Yeah sometimes it's really it is really hard. What really helps me is people. Part of that's taking your focus away from yourself. So asking people how you know what's been happening in your day, how you know how's your day been we've loads of regular customers and they minister to me as much as I minister to them. I'm sure uh they maybe don't realize that but they do. And when I'm if I'm feeling low I will put myself in the way of people because that's what reminds you of why you do what you do and we can be a blessing to others even when we're feeling a bit low. Maybe especially when we're feeling a bit low. It was a shock to me when I it took us a long time to open the shop and I remember realizing after a few days that we had to keep doing this every day that we're open. I'm proud that we've opened most days I think there's only two days that we've missed since we opened that we should have been opened and we didn't and to me that is constancy and resilience. But really lots of people pray for me. I have a great team and I now you know can depend on them to open up and do some of the things that I did on my own to start with and we've just some of the the best people we've had working with us before and still working with us. But yeah I wouldn't underestimate how hard it is and if you're listening to this and you want a an easy action I would say um go into a local shop and ask a shopkeeper how they are or show some interest in them and perhaps spend some money with them or if you can't afford to or don't want to share their posts on social media and encourage other people to shop local. It really matters and it is encouraging.

SPEAKER_02 41:01

Julie thank you so much for joining us on the Commission Files. Thanks for telling your story thank you for doing it with such oh gosh depth and honesty and compassion and for being interesting. You mentioned loads of people that you thanked I should point out dear listener Daniel Jackson of Genesis was interviewed in this very chair in the spring of twenty twenty five Dave Linton of Madlug was the last episode we've done so you only have to go back one. There's loads of fascinating people just like Julie on the Commission files but we want to wish you every best wish as you press on and run the race and keep on opening. And thanks for listening everybody thanks to our followers or subscribers to the Commission Files you can join them if you want. You can learn about making radio programs or podcasts or how to support Commission in our work so we don't give up just visit commissionradio.org there are ways to support us ways to join us ways to pray for us. You'll find links to our YouTube channel Instagram Facebook and LinkedIn until we think of a new one to have and I'll be back soon. Until then bye bye